Curse

Erasculio · Jul 17, 2006, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Warriors deserve the -dmg mod because they take the brunt of the dmg, are on the front lines AT ALL TIMES, and overextend past healing range of the monks to take down backline targets.

No other classes have better armor than a war does. That's why this change is so dumb.

So...By this logic, the Assassins (who are in the front lines as much as the Warriors, and have by far worse armor) deserve an Uber Rune of Absorption, with -5 damage (to all kind of damages)?

Keep in mind that you don't need the extra 5 energy, you don't need the knock down gloves, you don't need anything at all. Those are only your choices, not something you have to use or you'll be useless.

Warriors already have too many little tricks (the "hexes don't last as long" helmet, the knock down gloves, the Absorption Runes, etc...), I think it's only fair that they lose some of those, or that all classes get some of them. An Assassin is as much a melee Profession as a Warrior, and he has absolutely none of those novelties.

Erasculio

ernest irony · Jul 17, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Its options that the classes have for def mods not manipulation. Do your own math with the choices you make. Guess weapon switches don't exist either?

If you are considering hand-held items, you should incorporate +16 (or +21) AL into the warrior calculations.

On the other side, your "while enchanted" examples can get +15 AL using the +5 focus and the "Charr at the Gate" sword with a defense mod on it (FWIW).

twicky_kid · Jul 17, 2006, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

It's true warriors are that much more screwed vs. elementalists, but in PvP ppl never seemed to bother warriors much anyways until the rest of the team was dead, though they might now since the warriors have that much more vulnerability

I apologize for not reading all 24 pages of this thread before posting, and hope I didn't say things that have already been flamed to death :P That's just my 3 cents.

At least you said something of that WILL happen to tactics towards a war. I've been playing matches and have changed to that tactic. 80% of the time I can kill the war first before I kill anything else.

To me the dmg reduction was balanced because of the ammount of anti-war skills present in the game. The war has no way to deal with these type of skill alone. Since you couldn't kill him easily you could shut him down till the time came. Now you don't need to shut him down. Just kill him outright and dp him out.

Shendaar · Jul 17, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Then my Assassin should have the same benefit. Any hex that kills a warrior will kill an assassin(even the hex dedicated to casters can screw up an assassin), so why don't I have my very own Rune too?

And don't bring the whole Assassin have teleports crap, nothing stops you from using them too.

Kali Magdalene · Jul 17, 2006, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Don't forget that other classes have skills that can defend agianst elemental damageThe Warrrior does not have any.

Warriors have at least a few skills that boost armor, don't they?

floppinghog · Jul 17, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

And don't bring the whole Assassin have teleports crap, nothing stops you from using them too.

dont think this statement can even begin to defend yours, cause you know what? assassins have 4 pips of energy regen, what does a warrior have? oh right, only 2, the least of any other class. so tell me all-knowing person, could you explain to me why a primary class should have to depend on a 2nd chapter class as his 2ndary now to even begin to stay alive? LOL oh and its scarcly useable. for example, hey lets use AoD, ok.. 10 energy, maintain it. either get shattered right after, or never get close to 10 energy after the fact with just 1 pip. lets not forget if you cancel, your going back to your spot? pointless?

you say nothing stops us from using teles as a warrior, your simply Wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erasculio

So...By this logic, the Assassins (who are in the front lines as much as the Warriors, and have by far worse armor) deserve an Uber Rune of Absorption, with -5 damage (to all kind of damages)?

Keep in mind that you don't need the extra 5 energy, you don't need the knock down gloves, you don't need anything at all. Those are only your choices, not something you have to use or you'll be useless.

Warriors already have too many little tricks (the "hexes don't last as long" helmet, the knock down gloves, the Absorption Runes, etc...), I think it's only fair that they lose some of those, or that all classes get some of them. An Assassin is as much a melee Profession as a Warrior, and he has absolutely none of those novelties.
Erasculio

by this bolded statement alone, you prove you know nothing about the 2 classes.

bart · Jul 17, 2006, 02:37 AM // 02:37

/signed

are we organising anything official llike a demonstration in Kaineng or something?

Shendaar · Jul 17, 2006, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by floppinghog

dont think this statement can even begin to defend yours, cause you know what? assassins have 4 pips of energy regen, what does a warrior have? oh right, only 2, the least of any other class. so tell me all-knowing person, could you explain to me why a primary class should have to depend on a 2nd chapter class as his 2ndary now to even begin to stay alive? LOL oh and its scarcly useable. for example, hey lets use AoD, ok.. 10 energy, maintain it. either get shattered right after, or never get close to 10 energy after the fact with just 1 pip. lets not forget if you cancel, your going back to your spot? pointless?

you say nothing stops us from using teles as a warrior, your simply Wrong.

You perfectly can with the right build ... I have seen many myself. Just because you don't want to or want to try doing it doesn't mean you can't. I don't pretend to be all-knowing, but many of the people here refuses to adapt and try new things, which is why I say all this. Everything you said about AoD is true to the Assassin too, so I don't know where you are getting at.

floppinghog · Jul 17, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by art of war

lol you war can always switch to W/me and get all the mantras and ele resistance for your build,but i guess you didnt think of that oh well.....

of course, thats a way to get more ele resistance and what not, but when was guild wars about only one class combo for effectiveness? to even begin to stay in the game?

Lando Griffen · Jul 17, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Maybe they were trying to make assassins more appealing by making their armor not seeming as bad, but assasins are great and warriors were still fine. Maybe it was an attempt to make guildwars seem more like real life, and we all know that elemental damage is a huge threat in real life, just like warriors are constantly threatened by physical damage in guildwars.

floppinghog · Jul 17, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

the real thing that pretty much ticks me off, i dont care what anyones ideas are, honestly, the real issue is, why were runes and shields changed?

its very simple, why would you make it only vs physical? as it was said on some other page, would a shield not protect you even alittle from a fireball? thus -2 dmg?? no?? are you dumb or just plain stupid? its as realistic as you can make it.

where did the idea of runes come from? fantasy i think, so I would assume it would protect from all dmgs, no? well you compare that to some amulet that protects you from 2 punches from some thug...or something of that idea..

sheesh

and no this is not directed to anyone specificly.

Shendaar · Jul 17, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

lol I certainly wouldn't want a super high temperature fireball to hit my metallic shield.

floppinghog · Jul 17, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

I can adapt, no problem, getting new boots, no problem, getting no builds to stay with the game, no problem. I dont have to, this is a fact, but i wouldnt go nuts about that.

its the dmg mod change on runes and shields. THIS is the beef, with such an out of nowhere nerf, its not comparable to the AoE nerf for eles, its got nothing to do with it eles pwning warriors, its about the warrior getting plowed by an extra amount of hp for a monk to heal, just because 3 casters were swinging their wands at him... seriously.

an offical response as to why it was done, would satisfy me entirely - maybe anet just lost it, maybe they have a great plan coming up, maybe its time to find a new game, or enjoy it while i can? we'll see but until someone gives me a headsup on where this response is located, i will do what i see fit, in terms of explaining my opinion.

k thnx

not all shields are made of metal entirely

ADMIN EDIT: floppinghog, use the edit button. Do not post multiple times in a row.

Shendaar · Jul 17, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Of course not, but I wouldn't count on it to stop a fireball.

bart · Jul 17, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by floppinghog

its the dmg mod change on runes and shields. THIS is the beef, with such an out of nowhere nerf, its not comparable to the AoE nerf for eles, its got nothing to do with it eles pwning warriors, its about the warrior getting plowed by an extra amount of hp for a monk to heal, just because 3 casters were swinging their wands at him... seriously.

wow... now monks have to heal Assasins, the softies and Warriors extensively... looks like we might be seeing LF 3 Monks for mission

draxynnic · Jul 17, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by max gladius

ahh... ya that 121 ur talking about... 100 being with 13 strength... now, since the nerfage, warriors need tactics alot more, so 13 strength isnt going to be easy...

So get yourself a Dragon's set and get 111, 121 versus physical.

I haven't read most of the thread myself, but although my Warrior is one of my favourite characters, my main response was 'about time'. Admittedly that was mainly about the Knight's glitch being fixed, but the other stuff doesn't seem so bad:

* At least one of the absorption sources (the rune, I think) only affected physical already. So it's not as big a hit as some people may think.

* Physical seems, to me, to be where the absorption did the most good anyway. Wands aren't really that scary, and most of the nasty stuff from casters either ignores absorption entirely anyway, or is generally doing damage in large packets that the damage reduction is a relatively small amount. It also gives more incentive to use elemental mods on weapons - and remember, a weapon with an elemental mod is a weapon that doesn't have a max Vampiric or some other mod on it.

* It gives Knight's a definite place in the armour hierarchy for Warriors. At the moment, the breakdown seems to be:
Dragon: Anti-elemental (and anti-wand and anti-Judge's Insight)
Gladiator: Energy
Knight: Anti-physical
Berserker: General, but especially vs armour-ignoring effects (through larger hit point sink)
Legionnaire: Situational anti-physical
Sentinel: Conditional anti-elemental (and as Dragon note)

Certainly beats all those Gladiator's with on piece of Knight's/Ascalon (or occasionally Dragon/Platemail with one piece of Knight's/Ascalon) we used to see in Prophecies...

Really, I think this is a change we can learn to live with, just like the AoE update. Just remember the secondary professions if you really feel the need to compensate (I think Elemental Resistance on a full absorption set and shield keyed to Stances may be a good option - since armour-effecting damage from physical usually comes in relatively small packets, you can rely on the absorption to keep physical damage at bay while the resistance does the real work on elemental attacks. And if you're really that scared of light, dark, and chaos wands...

)

EDIT: I'm also waiting with baited breath for the Tank Troubles special to lampoon this incident. Labsenpai, you watching?

Dawgboy · Jul 17, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

I bet half the people complaining about the warrior nerf were loving it when the eles got nerfed- oops, I mean when the "aoe improvement" came out. How many of you said, "Suck it up and deal with it, whiners" when the eles where complaining? Just wondering. Guess the eles got the last laugh.

Actually, I don't like this new nerf either. What good is my damage reduction rune going to do for me on my leggings?
I was henching with my war last night and it was obvious I was taking a lot more damage than I was a few nights ago attempting the same mission. Lots of colorful gobs coming my way and nothing I could do about it because they also slowed me down so I took forever to get in close. Melee chars ftl.

I also suspect they nerfed wars to make assasins more palatable. They could have just raised the 'sin's armor lvl, but that would have meant admitting they didn't have the 'sin balanced on release, and A-net will admit to being wrong about something about the same time a politician will admit it- never.

BTW, I know assasins a balanced and great and all that crap, but from what I've seen 80-90% of the assasins don't understand how to play their char, and most pugs are gun-shy about inviting any more 'sins after a half-dozen bad experiences.

SAQ · Jul 17, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

No more wammo's in RA, I am happy!

Does-it-Matter · Jul 17, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Ok, to start this one out, a few responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yamero

you know its funny its the 4rth petition i sign today...
shouldnt that say something to anet?

There's a common saying I like. "I can only please one person a day, today isn't your day, tomorrow doesn't look good either."

You can't please everyone with a game. The larger the fan base, the more dissenters. It's that simple.

Quote:

5 eles, 20 dmg per attack (flare or such) normal ele spam on warriors, for those who dont have a clue at all... 5 attacks each.... so that is 5x5x20=500
or if u reduce it by 7 dmg each attack.... thats 5x5x13=325..... not so "ridiculously small" amount now.... 175 hp could be life or death....

You know, if five people who could cast fireballs or create small explosions anywhere they wanted all attacked on person at the same time, even if he was heavily armored in middle-aged armor... that guy would be dead.

The best way to stop magic, should be magic.

Quote:

FOR A WARRIOR YOUR BIGGEST THREAT IS NOT ANOTHER WARRIOR IT IS ELEMENTAL ATTACKS.

Exactly! And I know you meant to use this as a reason for the strike, but to me, its a reason for the recent update.

As I said in my above response, your muscle-bound warrior should be a bad ass against other warriors, but when it comes to something he may not be able to see, or physically fight, he should be at a disadvantage.

Will your armor save you from drownding? Will it save you from suffication? Will it make you less of a conductor of electricity? If you fall into a fire, will it stop you from becoming a roast?

If something can directly affect your soul, how the hell do you expect armor to stop that?

Call it practical, call it realism or whatever you want (I prefer Realism.) ANet is, imo, implimenting a lot more flavor features to illustrate a sense of realism and depth to the game.

The scribe, like it or hate it, is one of those methods.

Making a Warrior into their current phase is another. As I said above, sure you're able to take a beating, but magic is a whole new level.

I'd rather have realism in a game, that has a flow and a sense of fluidity and FUN, instead of number crunching to create the "best build."

Hell, something I'd call fun? ANet impliments a system in which the casting time, energy cost, recharge, duration and damage output (or buff, etc) is altered on a weekly basis. Not drastic changes, but small +/- changes here and there so sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not.

Variation, change, THOUGHT. Not stagnation and number crunching.

--

Now onto the direct subject matter proposed by the OP. As much as I think a strike in a video game is humorous... sad, and humorous, go ahead, please go ahead.

I would much rather have everyone who wants a cookie-cutter build go on strike while the people who want to PLAY the game, actually... wait for it... play the game.

Makes you wonder if other games have this "You aren't making your game the way I want it exactly so there for I'm going to spend my time standing around at (insert town) and refusing to play" mentality to deal with.

Lando Griffen · Jul 17, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

^not going to quote to save space. But...
If you're saying they updated it to be realistic, what in guildwars is realistic? If there are guys that can throw a fireball at you (which I've never met any in real life) why not have armor that can defend against it?